毕业后的选择- Interview with Kaye Zhang
产品、家庭、时间 - Interview with Jade Lam
Dec
16
Some topics we covered during the interview:
• a recruiting trip didn't go as planned • a solution - long term v.s. short term • blog as means of... • regarding inability • the Fouzhou phenomena
MAR: Welcome back! 我们想做一个follow up interview. Last time during our interview with you, one thing you mentioned is about a trip being planned to the MSU in Michigan because both you and your sponsor thought that there are some likely prospects who are worth recruiting. Have you had the opportunity to take the trip?
KZ: Yes, I have …, just don’t mention about MSU.
MAR: Tell us what happened?
KZ: Nothing happened, that’s exactly what happened. The student there didn’t pick us up. It was a very unpleasant trip.
MAR: O.K., you fly to Michigan?
KZ: Actually we went to Indiana first to see my American Grandma. Then we took the train to Chicago, then to East Lancing MI, and there is no one to pick us up. In other words, we were stood up.
MAR: So you made arrangement prior time but the person who were suppose to pick you up didn’t show up, for the reason of…?
KZ: for the reason of …, it doesn’t matter; she is just not a reliable person.
MAR: You booked a flight there…?
KZ: First by fly to Indiana then by train to Michigan.
MAR: The person who were supposed to pick you up in Michigan, was that a person whom you’ve thought as a prospect for the business?
KZ: Yes.
MAR: Did you tell her prior time about the business?
KZ: Yes, I did. She told me she would pick us up, she didn’t. And I tried to call her from the airport, she didn’t pick up the phone, and that was it.
KZ: Shall we change the subject? (smiled)
- Trip to MSU -
MAR: Well, you did get together with your school mates after all?
KZ: Yes, I did, and with MSU professors.
MAR: O.K., what about the students? Have you had a chance to talk to some of your friends there at MSU? What were they doing?
KZ: Well, we tried to contact this guy who is the President of a Chinese association at the school, and we showed the plan to him. He is kind of… he is cautious as it was a fresh idea to him. So it was interesting to him. And after a couple of days, I think he did some research online, and unfortunately, a lot of things online are not positive. Some of them even say that Market America is a scam. With all the bad experiences from the past distributors posted online, I think he saw some of that, and he decided not to do it. He didn’t mention it, but I guess that would be the reason.
MAR: That was with the President of an association. Any other people you talked to while at the MSU?
KZ: Well, that was a big fish, we were hoping to get to that guy, the President, and he would engage other Chinese students to be involved. And that didn’t work out so well.
MAR: I see, other prospects coming along the way?
KZ: No.
MAR: How many days have you stayed there?
KZ: Four, four to five days. We’ve spent two days in Indiana and the two other days in Michigan.
MAR: So the plan was sort of thrown off.
KZ: (smiled)
MAR: Now let me go back to the person who is the President of an association at MSU, did you tell him prior your meeting with him what you’re going to talk about?
KZ: Well, I wrote an email mentioning about the slowdown of the economy and said that it is every hard for the students to get jobs now days, that job placement is very competitive at the career center. And it is especially difficult for international students because companies are less willing to deal with international students having visa issues. I didn’t mention Market America in the email, but I said that I’ve found an opportunity in New York, and I’d like to talk to him in person. And we scheduled a time and we met, and June did all the talk.
MAR: O.K., so what was his reaction then?
KZ: I can see right off the bat he is a very smart guy. After he sees what this is, he remains cautious. But when he saw Google has a partnership with us and all the big companies with us, Dell, Macy’s, all the well known brand name on our web, he knew this is not a mom-and-pop store. But he was cautious and he said that he would do some research. And I would guess by typing Market America on Google is probably what he meant by “researching”. It probably didn’t go so well. I’ve tried it myself, almost all negative news, unbelievable.
MAR: Isn't that also true that Market America has a huge numbers of listings on Google as well? If you simply typing in “Market America” in the Google’s search window, you’ll get a lot of them, about twenty of them, at least the first page or two are all Market America listing. I mean since the Company has made a deal with Google, there are some visible arrangements made to the listings. If you typed in anything like “Market America”, or “OPC-3” or “Vitamins”, you’ll get official Market America listings first, at least the first several of them among other things.
KZ: I’ll try that.
MAR: Back to the President of an association, how did he feel about the business as a solution? Coping with the recent scenario of the financial crises, that it would be more and more difficult for graduates to find jobs, and in your own words, it would also be difficult for a career center to place the newly grads with jobs. What was his response to that?
KZ: Since he wasn’t familiar with the business, he didn’t respond as to this being a solution of the job problem simply by joining Market America. That’s why he said he would do some research later on.
MAR: O.K.
KZ: I meant, I mentioned in my email about the financial crises, and tried to…, my primary purpose was to get a one-on-one talk in person, to schedule a time to meet with him. That was the purpose.
MAR: Understood, in other words, he couldn’t see right away, as with many other people, that this can be a solution to the current problem. Any other school mates you’ve talked to??
KZ: A lot of school mates are graduated, only a few of them…
MAR: Well, wouldn’t you say that you ought to give yourself some credit, it’s a big move.
KZ: …for that it is a venture?
MAR: It is indeed a venture not without complication. It’s a long shot in a different part of the country. And you had to travel there, take the plane, take the train, and the cabs; and the person who were suppose to pick you up didn’t show up. And you were paying your own expenses. It’s a long shot…, so I’ll say you ought to give yourself some credit for what you did, and your sponsor too.
KZ: We were hoping the person would pick us up. When we finally realized that we were stood up, it was such a long and depressing night staying at a motel…
MAR: You also booked a motel?
KZ: Yes, we booked a motel, when the person didn’t show up, I think June knew what was going on but she didn’t want to say anything, because it was my friend (who were suppose to pick us up), that I had more trust in her than June did. June is right.
MAR: I see, after coming back, have you had a chance to talk to that person who failed to pick you up in Michigan?
KZ: I left a message to her about my hurt feelings and my inability to comprehend her behaviors. I even told her just to forget this and we’d still be good sisters (because I think relationships are far more important than MA, which is the cause of this whole dramatic trip). She never responded my message. Maybe she felt bad about what she’s done; maybe she doesn’t even give a hoot about all this and our friendship. I don’t know. We basically lost contact. But the whole trip once again confirmed my long learned lesson that no one is reliable and relationships are fragile.
MAR: Here is another question, in as many episodes as we can cite with just about anyone, this always happens and this pattern always repeats. When an individual is approached by one of us for the first time, talking to him/her about the business, it’s either a) reluctantly agree to look into it, b) saying I don’t have time or money and so on, and c) say whatever to get off and a long period of silence thereafter, most noticeably not returning calls. In your own words, what caused the reaction? Is there anyway to prevent it?
KZ: In this case, my friend was very passionate about this business after her first and only second-look meeting. And she went back to Michigan telling people about it and got slammed by other people and primarily by her boyfriend. And so, she chickened out. Evidently, her romance with her boyfriend weighed far more than MA, which is totally understandable. After all, why should anyone dump his/her partner over a matter he/she was never really involved.
- On Solution, Long term v.s. Short term -
MAR: Again, let’s go back to the President of an association, when you met him, did two of you talk to him or did you talk to him alone?
KZ: After a brief introduction, June took over.
MAR: It brings to another point, since we are talking about the reception of an idea. We’re looking at the college students here, who spent entire life at a school, concentrating on one particular area of study. What would be the thing that would make a sense to the students? I meant, many people wanted to recruit students, and there are a lot of young students who have joined MA; The Business didn’t specifically name the students, but a good number of college students are in the business right now. There are even talks given at Super Saturdays on how to lead a team consists largely of young people that includes students. So in your opinion, what is the thing that will make a sense to them?
KZ: …most attractive to them?
MAR: Well, that would make a sense to them as a solution?
KZ: First of all, I don’t think of it as, at least it is not a short term solution. Market America takes time. Usually, students who graduated from a college, they need money right away. Market America doesn’t provide that. It doesn’t provide income right away. You need to put time and investments (into it). So I guess you just need to show the plan to them, if they get it and you’ll sign them up, if not, then we’ll both move on. I think Market America can be attractive to those college graduates, who already have a job and are paying taxes or have parents with health issues. MA can provide them with tax reduction and/or quality nutrition products. Because I don’t think, the money part and the binomial system are all that attractive to young people. This is just my opinion.
MAR: So it comes down to the immediacy of it…
KZ: If it’s just for money, then it is not that stable because it has been said by experienced distributors that the first-year income of MA business is usually negative. But for distributors, who are in this business for the products, those people are much more stable, even they don’t make any money because they need the products. Unfortunately, young people are usually not drawn into the products. As soon as they realize that it is not quick money, and they can’t see how long it takes to get the money. They are very likely to quit.
MAR: That’s really a good point because…, I am impressed by the way! Really, not all experienced distributors are able to say this at all at any given times that one’s FIRST YEAR INCOME from MA is usually negative. And there are also differences where as some team trainings or talks are more direct forward on some points than that of other teams; vice versa, the same applies to individual distributors. For instance, I have personally heard only TWO times, two times only, from TWO MA figures, from two separate Super Saturdays in New Jersey. One, from Dennis Frank, and the second, from Kevin Buckman, remarked on the very issue of a starter needing a financial resource on the side prior his/her taking off on the MA business. Dennis Frank referred to it rather softly, that during the starting period one needs some kind of financial resources that will generate money because he/she is not making much during that period. And Buckman’s exact word was when referring to what one should realize that he/she should move on when a person being recruited says to you that I liked all you’ve said “but right now I really don’t have much left on my deck…” both were open examples of exuberant yet wise attitude. And they DID NOT LOOSE ONE AUDIENCE by saying it. It seems like that not all are able to say this to you, period. It remains to be a preference, yes. But also it made me think that this is one spot where it really hurts, a soft spot that most distributors choose to go around it rather than face it …
KZ: It’s a rather self-evident point that the first year income from MA is probably going to be negative. But there are two scenarios both with the same first-year result. One is that new distributors come and learn – they personally use the products, aiming to become the product of product, at the same time, learning how to speak about those products (i.e. their experiences on MA products, or product ingredient) and the concepts (NDT, show plan, Basic 5) while keeping themselves updated on MA’s trend – the website. The second scenario is practically doing nothing – going to trainings for listening rather than learning; hearing others’ speeches rather than speaking with their own mouth. While both scenarios may wind up with the same result for the first year, but the difference between the two is the former will generate earnings the second year, yet the latter will suffer negative income as he/she did the previous year.
MAR: Or that, the other scenario is that, there are young people who joined the business, did some work, then remain rather in a dorm mode, not exactly quitting nor exactly active, sort of wait-n-see, and if a job comes along as there are jobs out there regardless…
KZ: Sometime, I think if you explain things too clearly, it doesn’t always work. So whenever I bringing people to a meeting, I just say it in very very vague terms, and have them go to the meeting, If they like what the presentation presents, fine. If they don’t like it, I will just let them go.
MAR: That’s probably the way most people felt. Strangely, it has to be the way it is.
KZ: ‘cause I know I can’t explain all the stuff that well, so I just try to have the people who is giving the presentation do the explaining job for me.
MAR: 如果我明知故问的话, 为什么总是这样? Why is it true that we must always say less, or in your own words, say things very very vaguely?
KZ: hehehe. It could be that the real essence that lays underneath the vagueness is ugliness so vagueness comes in handy for the cover-up. It also could be that the beautiful essence may be distorted into ugliness when not delivered properly. Therefore, a professional speaker comes in handy for properly delivering the business message/concept. Two possible reasons, take your pick.
MAR: Do you think this business concept is rather revolutionary?
KZ: I think I’ll let time be the judge of that.
MAR: 比如说,你去MSU去跟他们谈, 你是去告诉他们一个很新的想法, 一个他们没有听过的想法, 有没有感觉有点象是党代表进入大学点那样…, 去给他们讲革命的道理…
KZ: (laughing) 党代表进入大学点, 哈哈, 没有, 没有,
MAR: 为什么没有呢, 给他们点名另一条道路, 只要团结一致, 曙光就在前头…
KZ: 还没去的时候有这种感觉, 然后被人放鸽子了, 之后找那个学生会主席谈的时候, 就感觉好像是在sell 一个concept to him， 那种感觉。 然后好像我是在Job Interview里，希望他来hire我。
MAR: 他那样讲的？
KZ: 他没有这么讲，我是这样感觉的。 他可能也没这么想，但整个感觉就好像是我是一个salesman, 我要sell this concept to him。And I don’t like that.
MAR: You don’t like that…
KZ: It just feels like I am selling something that hasn’t proven to be working on me. I am selling people a business model or a new concept, which I myself am having doubts about.
MAR: Did any of the students asking a question that you don’t know how to answer? or a question that is asked in a way that the provided business model/training material doesn’t answer it for you?
KZ: First of all, June took over the conversation, and he asked some questions that are beyond my knowledge. They were very tough questions. I don’t know, June just has special ways of answering questions without really answering the question. (That’s called “spin”, which are most manifested by politicians.) For example, he asked June a question after June introduced herself as working in a computer company, so the PhD student immediately asked, “are you a computer programmer or just a seller?” Actually June just sells computers, and that if it’s for me, I would just say, yes, I am a salesman. But that would sound cheap. So June went around it and said that, when customers come in, they tell us what they need, and we try to configure the computer to their special needs. It’s the same thing with Market America, you tell us what you need and we customize the product for you. So it curved around and went back to Market America. That was a very good answer, I thought.
MAR: Very very good! Just want to have an update, since we last talked, you have qualified yourself already as a distributor, is that right? In other words, you have your right and the left legs.
KZ: Yes, that’s correct.
MAR: Congratulations!
- On Blog -
MAR: I’ve had the opportunity to read your blog, your writing.
KZ: O.K., well, one of my professor had read my blog and said to me, “Kaye, you’re quite twisted!”
MAR: “You’re quite twisted?”
KZ: Yes, he was a sarcastic teacher, and he jokes with me a lot. And I think that is what it is, it’s solemnly twisted. I like that comment.
MAR: It is a great comment. In a way I thought I was reading Virginia Woolf, sort of emotive, concisely plotted, and a bit of dark…
KZ: A little.
MAR: Yes, a little.
KZ: (smiled) I guess that’s because I don’t write about bright things, rarely.
MAR: Isn’t that also because of the fact that writers like to concentrate on certain elements of life, and certain things, if they’re one hundred percent beautiful, of course there isn’t, at least there would be very little to write about, where as if there is something that is semi-beautiful, may leave lots of room for writing.
KZ: I think there is always two sides to a matter, that there is beautiful aspect to it and a bad and dark aspect to it, sometimes, I tend to focus too much time and energy on the dark side than on the bright side; sometimes, I don’t focus at all, just letting things and people to pass me by like water flowing through fingers.
MAR: Do you ever get a chance to come out of it?
KZ: Come out of the dark side?
MAR: Come out of the dark side…
KZ: Yes, I did eventually. I was once very sucked into darkness and depression, I felt the need to get out of it. But if you really think about it, you are never 100% isolated from the dark given the premise mentioned before that there’s always two sides to a matter (bright and dark). Some people just choose not to aware of the existence of the dark side. It’s too much to handle that they rather not to face it.
KZ: Did you watch the moive “The Hours”?
MAR: Yes, I did. It is about Virginia Woolf.
KZ: In the movie, they portrayed her as an insane woman, I don’t think I am that insane… (laughing)
MAR: I didn’t say that. (laughing)
KZ: 我有三个blog, 一个是Yahoo, 一个是MSN, 一个是eblogger, 你觉得那个更strike you?
MAR: I don’t know which is which, but I liked the series, the series that depicts life in the United States…, including the poem composed in the shape of a little house. You know which one am I talking about?
KZ: Oh, “Self”! O.K., that’s on eblogger.
MAR: That’s it, eblogger.
KZ: 我买那本MacBook的时候,它自带有一个application, 叫iWeb, 是用来制作自己的网页的。很不错， 很方便。 但是你要每年交subscription fee。 现在我在那个网上的blog非常非常的少，也不知道要写什么了。
MAR: Since we’re on it, can I ask what is the connection between a writer and his blog?
KZ: ...what is the connection?
MAR: Would it be largely having to do with free publishing or self-publishing or having one's voice to be heard?
KZ: Well, blog is his life, isn’t it? Or, it can be not his life but his last resort that he can reply on ‘cause there is no human being to whom he can express his emotion, so he always goes back to his blog and write. 因为如果你自己有什么想说的话，你可以找朋友说，但是这样的话你要注意自己的言谈，注意自己言语上的逻辑。你也要考虑到他会听你倾诉多长时间， 也不知道你跟他倾诉完后他会怎么想的。但是如果你只是把你的一些想法或是牢骚发到blog里面去，只是自己的抒发，有人愿意看就看，没人看便拉到，就是这样。However, if a writer’s livelihood depends on his blog, then the blog is at the risk of losing its originality because the writer has website traffic on his mind – he would tend to write what is popular.
MAR: Do you think we should include a blog feature in meianren.NET?
KZ: Sure, still I don’t know what to write? That’s the main problem.
MAR: Well, there are lots that can be write about. It is a personal space, whatever that person feels at the moment, if that person wants to, he or she can express it there, just like that. In fact, we much prefer anything goes, anything that comes to mind! We like to provide a ground that does not restrict but nurture the thoughts, preserve them from the moment. Others can read and choose to comment if they want to. However, one thing remains to be largely true that more people choose to read than to comment, which has long been a problem with blog. People read and move onto the next and read more and move onto the next, and the blog remains to be a personal space, visited, peeked. As a blog writer (not just a blogger), you almost have to know before hand what grasps your readers.
KZ: Typically, readers tend to be your closest friends and relatives.
MAR: Yes, very much!
- On Inability -
KZ: When I graduated I wanted to go to Africa, and the reality kept me from going. I want to do a lot of things, when time passes by, your passion passes away and new passions pop up, and I don’t get anything done.
MAR: Yes, isn’t it true with just about anyone?
KZ: And then you just go find a job and do what’s seemingly normal. Before you know it, 40 hits you and 50 comes by…
MAR: Isn’t it true in the MA business life starts at the 50’s?
KZ: (laughing)
MAR: And for the most, life starts at 50’s. Some started earlier but I would think …
KZ: ...the average age?
MAR: Well, for the most, shall we say that, I don’t want to bite my tongue, …those who made it in the MA business and started to enjoy what they’ve made would be somewhere around the age of fifty, given the average age for one to become a Millionaire in the MA business (see those on the stage), wouldn’t be too far off from near one’s 50’s.
KZ: But there are a lot young Fuzhou people from restaurants, they’re earning a good income.
MAR: You meant in Market America?
KZ: Yes.
KZ: They’re very diligent folks, rather simple-minded, get a wife and have babies and a reliable income source and they’re happy.
MAR: Yes, in fact, we’re very much enchanted by this and we want to explore this in an interview with someone who is from Fouzhou and who is doing MA. This “Fouzhou phenomenon” has quickly become a driven force among the new generation of Chinese distributors. We are in the process of inviting someone over for this.
MAR: I wonder if there is any truth to that, that people who have had higher education, college degrees, etc., would take longer to get into this business, sometimes, a lot longer.
KZ: O.K.
MAR: Isn’t it true that more education we have more well-rounded thinking we have more difficult for us to do anything away from our own logic?
KZ: Inability to do anything away from people’s logic is true to anyone, not just well-educated people. It’s just the logic of relatively low-educated folks does not consist of many complexities that prevents the relatively high-educated folks from the “just-do-it” attitude. They think more. They would even come up with mathematical models to analyze the “binomial system.” These people are much less likely just to go along with what the big-mouthed, middle-aged woman says without thinking twice.
MAR: We know quite a few Chinese distributors in the MA circle who have had rather higher education and have made to the top. We are in the process of inviting one or two of them over for a chat, on the same topic you and I are discussing. They’re very successful right now money wise. I think people would be interested to discover what we call the detailed transition of the mindset. It is not an easy task, and I am afraid that even before we begin, that most people would probably refrain themselves from talking about it; or when they do open up, their language becomes somewhat speech-like, because a “new inability” is taking precedent.
KZ: I like PhDs’ speech, in which there’s wisdom – there is actual analysis on the business model. I very much look forward to reading their inputs.
- END -
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